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General Comics Chat: Rubbish comics...

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2009
     
    Whilst struggling through the tedious characters, pointless story and bad art of a recent issue of Gen 13, I got to wondering: what comics do you buy each month that are terrible and make you wish you'd not bothered but then buy again anyway?

    For me, the first two issues of Web of Spider-Man were really poor. I'm still getting the next one.
    Gen 13 has been incoherent dross for several months now. Still buying.
    Authority is dull and plodding and I've no interest in the next issue. Which I will read.

    There are probably a dozen more that I really ought not to bother with...
  2.  
    Hmmmm. I had a major culling a few years ago, due to many reasons, and so now I try to just buy stuff I like. How elegantly simple, that could never go wrong! You don't cry. Alas the unique nature of comics ensures there still remain chinks in my armour.

    Example: Captain America: Reborn
    Which one again shows that I really will never learn. As good as any comic may start out once the publishers think they can gouge more money out of it prepare for editorial extrusion of a perfectly decent story to miles long length and micron thick content. Jeeze. If the next issue ends once again with a full page splash of someone's head at a slight angle I fear I, dear readers, shall become comatose. Should anyone not actually be reading this series, and right about here you are to be congratulated upon your good judgement and sturdy impulse control, I shall now give you instructions on how to create your very own DIY Captain America: Reborn Experience Slow Motional Comic, consider it my Christmas Gift to all!:

    1) Visit OKComics. Purchase several volumes of Essential Captain America.
    2) Tear out the most exciting pages.
    Edited - 3) Learn to count (I missed "3" out! Dur.)
    4) Write "Bucky Cap fights some people!", "Reed Richards and Hank Pym look out of the panel at you!", "Desperate attempt to wake everyone up by putting in Doctor Doom!" "Obligatory Norman Osborne appearance!","Sharon Carter Agent of W.E.E.P. cries!" on sheets of paper and intersperse these with the b/w pages of old style awesome.
    5) Randomly staple all your sheets together.
    6) Print off a preview page of Captain America: Reborn. Ensure the page contains a Hitchy "Floating Cap With Slight Grimace" full figure pose of the Star Spangled Sleeper. There are many, many of these pages so finding one will not be a problem.
    7) Carefully cut around this figure. (You may wish to get an adult to help with this although safety scissors ensure fun without fear for all the family).
    8) Eat an ice lolly. Keep the stick.
    9) Stick "Floating Cap" to the stick. Sniff the glue until you see God in your peripheral vision (optional).
    10) Read your random pages while gently moving "Floating Cap" across the width of the pages.
    11) At the same time mutter things like "Gosh, The Red Skull really has gone too far this time!", "If only I could...could..but I can't", "What is NASCAR?", "Jiminy, I really am upset by all this Evil stuff.", "Did I leave the gas on?" etc.
    12) Upon reaching the last page cock your head at an angle and say "Ooooh! I'm a gonna get you Captain America!"
    13) Extend it by another issue just to drive the cash gouge aspect home.

    Okay, it isn't a terrible comic but it is definitely not good enough. Not by far.
  3.  
    I bought every issue of Secret Invasion, including all the New/Might Avengers tie-ins, and hated every single one of them. Madness.

    I almost feel into the same trap with Blackest Night. I bought the 1st issue and a couple of the GL tie-ins and immediately saw it for what it was - utter garbage. So I bought the second issue. Why? God knows. To make it worse I even then bought the 3rd issue - however that was so so so so bad that it shocked me out of my "Event" coma and I haven't bought anything to do with Blackest Night since! Yay!
  4.  
    Lamont - Genius summary - I'd just add:-

    14) Have all your other related comics spoil the ending of the mini-series with a few months to go.
  5.  
    Maybe I should have thought this out and could have done it all as one post, oh well.

    On some message board a few months ago there was a guy complaining about some comic he was buying, claiming it had been terrible for almost 2 years. Obviously he was asked why he kept forking out month after month for a comic he hated, his reply was "I've got a complete run from issue #1, I'm not breaking it just because this piece of crap writer is on it at the moment".

    [Shakes head]

    Mind you, that used to be me! I was going for a complete run of X-Men and Uncanny X-Men. Then one day in the mid 00's (I think when Chris Claremont came back on board) I realised that both titles had been rubbish for years and stopped buying them - I even got rid of some!
  6.  
    Mike's giving me the new news allrighty! I don't read enough Marvel books to know they had spoiled the ending to CA:R. Nice one, Marvel. I mean it isn't going to surprise anyone - that ending, is it now, but the decent thing would have been to let it happen in the right order in the right series.
    Ah, but scheduling has never been Marvel (or DC)'s strong suit. That's okay. I mean it's not like they've been in the monthly comic book business 70 years or something is it? Cripes, I hope they never have to compete with real businesses or we might see comics marginalised to near extinction depending upon licensing to movies and video games for their survival. Ha! Never!

    Man, I think we would need both Gil Kane and Jack Kirby working in tandem to provide the requisite sturm und drang to portray the battle within Mike's mind as he struggled to drop BN. Mike won though. He won. Respect is due. And I am definitely not joking. I've been there. Heck, we've all been there. And sometimes we didn't win.

    "That guy" is us! And we are he! I was going to be all haw! but then I realised the only reason I'm buying CA:R is because I..have...a...complete...run...so...far! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAieeeeeeee! I try not to do that completist stuff any more honest, but ,dang, you have to be ever vigilant against completism and inertia. Because if you ain't you'll be buried in bad comics.

    Maybe we don't need a Forum, maybe we need a support group? Now, who needs a hug?
    • CommentAuthorsmiggy3000
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2009
     
    my problem is the events rather than the comics, and The Initiative doen't really count as an event, but must collect all those pretty bannered comic books...
    • CommentAuthorCaptain Si
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2009
     
    I'm turning into something of a comic book magpie these days. i'm enjoying most of the stuff i'm reading. i did go through a terrible time in thew 1990s reading allsorts of terrible crap. Death's Head II was largely shite throughout all its sixteen issues, Ghost Rider went silly when they span out the Midnight Sons and the title never really recovered from that mess, I read Zero Hour. Crap. I read Knightfall (good) then Knightquest (okay, but a continuity nightmare thats kept it out of trade paperback format) and Knights End (bobbins). I even collected Maximum Carnage and The Clone Saga. Ravage 2099. Punisher 2099. garbage. the titles i was enjoying were generally scuppered by crossovers that might have been worthy and critcal hits, but i was just fed up of crossovers by that point as they'd all been largely awful (Generation X, fantastic Four). So I rounded out the decade safe in the bosum of The Maxx, Scud, Grrl Scouts, Preacher and Transmetropolitan. And since they all ended, its taken me a long time to find comics that I truly love. So I am grateful for Invincible Iron Man, Bat Girl (new series) and Ghost Rider
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2009
     
    I don't fall into the dangerous, dangerous Event Trap as I cleverly buy absolutely everything ever anyway (at the moment I am waiting with varying degrees of anticipation for the next issues of 32 different limited series and 71 ongoing titles). I'll not give away the end of CA: R and spoil an already dismal experience further for Mr Cranston, esq. However, at least three comics I read last night were clearly set after CA: R has ended...

    Despite this compulsive over-consumption, I am relatively easygoing about gaps in the collection these days. I somehow missed four issues of New Mutants (which King Jared acquired for me from his Comics Cauldron or somesuch) recently, and had I not been able to get them, I'd have lived. Thanks to decompressed storytelling, not much happens anyway in most monthly comics.

    More awful comics:
    Spider-Man: The Clone Saga - terrible mini-series. Beyond pointless.
    Cable - a reasonable idea that's been stretched to an extent that CA: R seems like a high-octane thrill-ride. Often 'boosted' with awful art.
    Incredible Hulk - more awful art (Ariel Olivetti is the Liefeld of the Noughties) and water-treading stories. Just do World War Hulks earlier, rather than putting out no stories for months.

    Just to be nice to someone, Matt Fraction's Iron Man has, as has been observed here, stellar. I'm also really enjoying his Uncanny X-Men stuff. Scalped and Criminal are both great too.
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2009
     
    I am brave! I've dropped nine comics! Yay for me.
  11.  
    Fret not, faithful ones! The Liberated One quite literally means "dropped". He'll pick them up again in a minute before the dog gets them. Excelsior!
    •  
      CommentAuthorShaunw1973
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2009
     
    My biggest problem is I'm a completist. Even if something is utter rubbish I have to have a complete set.
    It took me six issues to drop Gotham City Sirens. The first issue was rubbish. I knew it would be before I bought it. Bur because it's a Batman book I 'had' to buy it. Similarly Streets of Gotham.
    I've been good recently and stopped buying stuff just for the sake of it. It's actually made me look forward to my monthly subscriptions coming through as I'm looking forward to reading the whole lot.
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2009
     
    I dropped Sirens after one issue. So it must have been terrible, as it took 160 issues for me to drop Spawn and I've never dropped an X-Men book.
    • CommentAuthorsam
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2010
     
    the first two issues of flash rebirth was dissapointing which reminds me i needs to get the 3rd one ....
  15.  
    And that is Comedy Gold right there. Nice one!

    Captain America Reborn became absolutely amazing this issue (6?) when Brubaker took a leaf out of The Moore's book (Promethea) and had his heroes enter actual real Reality. It was a daring move to just launch into such an experimental approach without any foreshadowing but with that image of the Avenger's Quinjet flying into the Real Washington DC my withered heart started to beat again as the illimitable power of the comics medium was once again proven. Throughout the rest of the issue you could see reality subtly struggling to impose itself upon the 4-colour world as linework gave way to photographs. Oh. Wait. Actually it could just be that Hitch couldn't be &rsed to finish his amazing artistic method of tracing over photographs. Yeah, it could in fact be that. How professional. Allow me to return the fav...
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeJan 2nd 2010
     
    I don't mind artists tracing over photos, but actual photos always trouble me. They jar like bad CGI. Ariel Olivetti's already awful art is often further weakened by dropping his cartoons onto photo backgrounds. I'd actually, honestly prefer a Liefeld-esque load of scribble and crosshatching as a background than a photo.
    •  
      CommentAuthorOK Comics
    • CommentTimeJan 2nd 2010
     
    Ouch.
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeJan 2nd 2010
     
    Yes, ouch. I am formally declaring that, in my often less than humble opinion, Olivetti is even more awful than the much maligned Liefeld.
  19.  
    I'm with Lee on this one, Olivetti's pencil work was pretty nice, but the style he had on Punisher as terrible. Photo backgrounds in general annoy me as they really do jar and stand out badly, but Olivetti's stuff looked even worse. Chaykin's modern stuff is just as bad.
  20.  
    I may have been unclear so I'll just say it isn't the tracing (Wally Wood), use of photo reference (Russ Heath) or photo-collage/cartooning (Jack Kirby) I find enraging. These are all tools available to the comics artist and, when time is of a premium, their usage is fully understandable and indeed quite commendable and oft times most artistic indeed (see names previous).
    What rubs my gums sore is the quite clearly unfinished nature of the art in CA:R. Good art, bad art - it is what it is to you. But unfinished art - that's just unfinished art, and that's just not on. That's just not on at all.
  21.  
    Back to the general nature of rubbish comics:

    Catching up on my Batman trades so I can read RIP which I got for Christmas... how rubbish is The Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul? The first two 3rds of the trade are terrible, even the Grant Morrison bits. It picks up a bit towards the end and then peters off, but overall it's probably the single worst Batman story I've ever read.
    •  
      CommentAuthorOK Comics
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2010
     
    A lot of these problems seem to stem from the same thing. The fact is that modern monthly comics cross over with each other. So a storyline that's written by committee, like Resurrection of Ras Al Ghul, is destined to have a few inconsistencies, putting it politely... and getting and awesome, yet slower than monthly, artist like Bryan Hitch to work on a monthly series (Cap Reborn) that so many other comics (Iron Man, Dark/New Avengers, Siege) are closely tied into means that either it runs late or the quality has to suffer.
    As wave upon wave of people are dropping monthly series in favor of graphic novels it'd be nice if Marvel and DC kept an eye on the longer term book market. (incidentally we at OK Comics humorously abbreviate "trade waiters" to "traitors").
    Remember when we had to wait ages for McNiven to finish Civil War? Realy, you do? I don't. All I remember is how awesome the artwork is throughout the whole book, and how easy it is to sell because there isn't a fill in chapter by Scott Kollins, and how everybody loves the book.
  23.  
    I agree completely. I don't understand this incessant need from the fans for a book to rigorously keep to a monthly schedule. I loved Final Crisis, but it suffered from the fact that J.G. Jones couldn't meet a monthly deadline, but rather than delaying the book they got other artists to plug the gaps to the point that the last issue was just really really badly drawn and made the series conclusion disappointing to say the least.

    Wasn't Watchmen hit with loads of delays? No-one gives a damn about that now.

    Planetary took years to complete it's 26 issue run. Would it have been better or worse if it was drawn by say, Billy Tan, and came out every month?
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2010
     
    I don't care at all about schedules, and would always rather look at one of McNiven's pages than one of Billy Tan's. That said, fill in artists look their worst in a trade as they're more directly comparable, and as I'm no 'traitor' (great term!) that doesn't bother me. What does always irritate is when they get a fill in artist to imitate the style of the lead - I'd rather they just used their own style (unless they're Olivetti).

    It is a bit annoying when the tie-ins give the end away because of delays ('cause, you know, I'd totally not seen Steve being back at the end of CA:R...) but it is not the end of the world either. However, can't they plan better? If Siege is an event "seven years in the making" then everything should really ship on time...
  25.  
    Nah, it ain’t the end of the world, it’s just galling that’s all. CA:R is both late and unfinished. The best of no worlds!
    Why does getting a slow artist to work on a monthly book have to mean anything except better planning on the part of the people producing this stuff? No, I say, the quality doesn’t have to suffer and it doesn’t have to run late. These are not givens these are failures. But then I thought the whole point of these companies was to produce monthly comics that are then collected. Overall though, consistency trumps timeliness in my book.
    Having said that I think Civil War should have been delayed a lot longer while someone rewrote it and I don’t mind Scott Kolins so I may not be the entirely in tune with the world at large.
  26.  
    In the old days (he's says sat in his bath chair reaching for his zimmer frame and his incontinence bowl) it was largely unheard of for a Marvel or DC title to miss shipping on time. And by that I mean titles published through the 60s, 70s & 80s. Particularly during the 70s when both publishers had a large enough inventory to print filler issues should a title slip. Not unexpectedly there were late shipping (and in a lot of cases non shipping) titles with the advent of the Indies during the 80s, but for me the "I'm the celebrity hot artist of the month and you'll get when you get it" effect created by Image has generally killed the need to ship on time. Many issues are probably no where near complete even when they are solicited in Previews.
    It isn't the comic that sells any more it's the name involved.
    Most publishers appear to pander to the whims of this month's fanboy favourite to the detriment of sales and ultimately profit. Profit generates sustainability. It wouldn't be so bad if the title was worth the wait.
    It used to be that if you couldn't get it done on time you weren't on that title. If the retailer had to pay up front for the title it would hit his pocket as well. But it wouldn't take long for orders and sales to take a hit.
    Are page rates too high in this day and age? The likes of Kirby et al knew they had a date by which the art had to be Fedexed to the office for inking, colouring and lettering otherwise their money was down. And then they have to start trying to make up for lost income.
    To my mind what doesn't help is there's a consumer base out there that is rabid enough to buy a title even if it ships a month, two months or a year late, because they are fed drivel and hype by the likes of Wizard or various websites telling them it's the best thing since sliced bread, and who don't feel short changed when the collected volume is out within a few weeks of the printing of the much delayed last issue.

    End of incoherent rant.
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2010
     
    You know what else is annoying? Slow writers. Slow artists are pandered to and indulged but, to one extent or another, can be understood as drawing pretty pictures can take a long time. But scripting a plot you've already thought of? Stan Lee used to do a million books a month (roughly) and Bendis manages about 80% of Marvel's output. And then you've Millar and Kevin Smith titting around for months on end. Annoys me, it does.
  28.  
    An incontinence bowl? Not pants or sheets but a bowl? That's just wrong, Mr. Nimbus.

    Fill-ins, right? It's worth pointing out that not all fill-ins are rushed hackery. You know what Alan Moore's idea of a fill-in is? Alan Moore's idea of a holding pattern while the artists catch up? Saga of The Swamp Thing # 28 AKA "The Burial". Saga of The Swamp Thing # 32 AKA "Pog". Yeah, "Pog". Yeah "The Burial". That's because Alan Moore is a class act.

    Man, Saga of The Swamp Thing was/is awesome. Even the fill-ins are great. If I hadn't read that comic I totally would.
  29.  
    i agree with all the above. filler artists desrve better too, frequently having to do rush jobs to meet deadlines. ron lim used to be a steady hand until he was called upon to fill in on practically every marvel title during the exodus of "talent" to image, and his work nosedived as a result. i notice from re-reading the old marvel essentials, you were lucky to get an artist on a book for more than 3 issues a go - perhaps this would be a better solution? heck, you could then put all the slow pokes on one book with (hopefully) the result that the book would end up shipping on time.

    incidentally, whatever happened to dave cockrum? he was good. is he still alive? is he happy? i hope so.
  30.  
    All though he died in 2006 there is a tribute site:

    http://www.davecockrum.net/index.htm

    that details his career and his legal battles against Marvel.
  31.  
    ta nimbus!
    • CommentAuthorgreg75
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2010
     
    I bought a box full of dc off e-bay with about 200 in,really good stuff in there but there was stuff i thought no i'm not touching that.Omega Men,Skreemer and Electric Warrior,Superboy the tv comic and......ATARI FORCE
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2010
     
    Atari Force sounds great. Maybe they could update it: 360 Squad vs The PS3 Legion?
  34.  
    "Omega Men,Skreemer and Electric Warrior,Superboy the tv comic and......ATARI FORCE"
    You're not touchimg those? All those are worth a good touching. Well, maybe not Supeboy.
    I've always wanted to read Omega Men, Skreemer is Peter Milligan, Steve Dillon and Jim McCarthy doing James Joyce and future gangstas, Electric Warrior is a somewhat silly but enjoyable future parable by Doug "Munchy" Moench and the great Jim Baikie and Atari Force has Jose Luis Garcia Lopez and is thus beyond any reproach. All that off the top of my head! Those are good reading. Get stuck in! Eat your greens!
  35.  
    Skreemer was by Peter Milligan, Steve Dillon and Brett Ewins. I was wrong. But I could sense the disdain for my ineptitude emanating like fresh stink on hot concrete so I came back and owned up. The fact remains that Skreemer is, however, totally futcha gangsta kool!
    • CommentAuthorCaptain Si
    • CommentTimeFeb 12th 2010
     
    Witchblade and Tomb Raider!!! I forgot I had this! Preposterous art! Ridiculous story - did you know, there are sheer cliffs in the middle of London? And that London also looks a bit like a balmy mediterrean city by night, rather than just a less grubby mess of wonky buildings and traffic jams! toot toot
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2010
     
    I've got that too. It's awful.
  38.  
    The worst comic I have ever bought has to be Killpower: The Early Years. Marvel UK minseries. Bad in every single possible way.

    Captain Si I assume you have this!?
  39.  
    Sheer cliffs in the middle of London! That's fantastic! I suppose that's karmic payback for all those comic scenes where they show the "reaction around the world" with each panel representing a famous country and usually it'll be, for example, some people in rags eating out of bowls next to the pyramids. Caption: EGYPT! NOW!
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2010
     
    I've been to the pyramids and there were rags and bowls and camels and everything...
    • CommentAuthorCaptain Si
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2010
     
    i do not own killpower : the early years. i am pleased to say. i just thought, he's a big genetic child-man thats been brought up to see killing things as just a game. his backstory was spelt out well enough in one issue of Motormouth, without the pointless indulgence of an early years spin off which would add nothing to a very one dimensional character! and the art looked pretty grotty too, coming out at a time when Marvel UK seemed to be pumping out books to keep their bank manager happy!
    • CommentAuthorLee
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2010
     
    An unrelated comment: last night I was sort of debating the position of comic art in relation to 'proper' art (ie, the stuff you see in galleries). Naturally, I was suggesting that comic art was often unfairly derided, but then my girlfriend said "Rob Liefeld".

    I had no comeback.
  43.  
    What about Hirst, Emin and Banksy? Truly the Gatefold Embossed Variant Cover Hot Collector's Items Zombie Monkey Covers of The "Proper Art" World. Feh!
    •  
      CommentAuthorOK Comics
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2010
     
    I liked Banksy when he drew for Oink!
  45.  
    Wait! "he's a big genetic child-man thats been brought up to see killing things as just a game." That's me isn't it? The gall, the sheer ruddy gall of the man!
    • CommentAuthorCaptain Si
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010
     
    ...but i bet you don't have a prehensile tail like killpower...
  47.  
    ...well, I don't like to boast, but...
    • CommentAuthorCaptain Si
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2010
     
    ...do you use it to swing hither and yon?
    • CommentAuthorgreg75
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2010
     
    how about lab rats from dc?amethyst?arak?
  50.  
    Lab Rats is by John Byrne! Thus is it destined to set brother against brother until time's end! I liked it. I remember (lights pipe, reclines) a story in Lab Rats where they went to a future world time where the earth had been conquered by a super powered being and Superman had disappeared. Or something. Anyway it turned out Superman had knackered the world up for some reason and then forgot about it and also who he was due to the mental trauma (did you guess! He was the mysterious super powered being!). Oh, it was really dark and ooooh! Dark stuff! Gosh, it was Dark! And then there was that time they went small that time. It was okay. Lasted about eight issues?

    Arak is by Rascally Roy Thomas and (usually) some combination of Ernie (Unfortunate Surname) Colon and Tony "Hex!" DeZuniga. It's basically Conan if he was a Native American. Lasted at least 50 issues and one Annual. I liked it at the time and one day I will buy a complete run and be really disappointed and feel a bit empty in a way I won't be able to identify and probably take it out on a loved one in a wholly petty and vindictive way the cause of which action will forever puzzle us both. But it will be Arak's fault.

    Amethyst was for girls. Ernie (Kick in the) Colon drew it a lot though.

    You got some good comics there! Why are they on the "Rubbish comics" thread! I demand a recount!
    • CommentAuthorgreg75
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2010
     
    I'm just very fussy Mr.Cranston,unless it's major super-heroes like Spider-Man or Superman then it takes a lot to get me interested,though saying that I like stuff like Unknown Soldier and Hex.About time they did an Unknown Soldier film especially as the war theme seems to be popular at mo.
    • CommentAuthorgreg75
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2010
     
    Last incarnation of ant-man was it the irredeemable?any good or give it a miss?scott lang's ant-man was for me the most under used hero in the marvel universe also the mark shaw manhunter series in the 90's i thought was excellent but someone said at a comic mart the other week it was crap and not worth the paper it was written on.also all new atom worth a read?what's the situation with ray palmer haven't read anything with him in since countdown.And just for old time's sake lets bring back the human bomb!
  53.  
    It's like you have your own tastes and preferences, Mr. Greg75! Brrrrrrr! A chilling thought.

    Anyone who likes Jonah Hex and The Unknown Soldier (WW2 vintage) gets a good face chuching alrighty roo! (Those "Showcase Presents:" volumes of each of them are fantastically good value. Word to the wise. Ey?)

    They brought back the human bomb a couple of years ago, didn't they? In that Uncle Sam And The Freedom Fighters pair of mini-series? Then they blew him up. I'm not joking. Or do you mean bring him back again after the last time? Continuity - it's a confuser!

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